SPECIAL Career Track Live
Hosted by Amy Joyce
Washington Post columnist
Tuesday, April 24, 2001; 11 a.m. EDT/EST
Are you young, gifted, and trying to get ahead or find the right niche? Then talk to Amy Joyce, Career Track columnist for The Washington Post.
Amy hosts weekly online talks for young professionals as they find their way through the world of work.
Amy hosts special guest Darrell Ayers, senior program director for the education department of the John F. Kennedy Center of the Performing Arts. He not only runs the department with the vice president but he directly coordinates their internship program. Since he's been working at the Kennedy Center, their internship program was named as one of the top 100 internships in the nation by the Princeton Review and one of D.C.'s top ten internships by the City Paper.
If you're looking for a future in the performing arts, ask Darrell!
The transcript follows below.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Amy Joyce: Hello all. Welcome to our very interesting show today with Darrell Ayers, who is here to reiterate that there are more than just political and tech jobs around here! Go ahead and send those questions in.
Beallsville, Md.: I have been working in retail management for the last 5 years. I have always had a passion for the arts. Is it possible to transition into a career change?
Darrell Ayers: Do you have any experience in the arts, e.g., performing, volunteering with an arts group, etc.? If not, I would recommend volunteering for an art's organization in your community and gaining some experience.
Your retail experience is quite valuable because so much of arts administration is dealing with patrons (customers).
The only drawback is that the paychecks are not as big in the non-profit world, but the other rewards are great.
Washington, D.C.: Hi Amy and Darrell - This chat is precisely what I need right now. Thank you!
I was a music major in college and have gone astray - currently I'm working in politics - and I am now trying to move into arts administration. I had a great internship at an orchestra during college, working in the education and marketing departments. Right now I'm working in marketing, and I enjoy it - but I am unsure how to sell my skills to a prospective arts employer as I have limited arts management experience. I know the field is hard to break into, so I appreciate your advice very much. Thanks!
Amy Joyce: Glad we could help. Darrell, breaking *back into* the field seems to be a common theme today (and always)... what can folks do?
Darrell Ayers: You should be applying for entry-level positions with arts organizations in the area. Contact the Cultural Alliance of Greater Washington. They have a good job bank.
Washington, D.C.: What are your thoughts on arts administration graduate programs? Are they worth it? Thanks.
Darrell Ayers: Well, there are a number of issues about arts administration verses MBAs. Truthfully, you just need to get an advanced degree if you want to end up in a senior position. Also, you want to check out the new Vilar Institute at the Kennedy Center http://kennedy-center.org/vilarinstitute
Arlington, Va.: I would love to work in the performing arts. Singing is my passion, and I've been doing it for years; however, to make a living, I majored in computer science. After college, I worked for three years as a consultant. How can I break into arts administration? Many of the skills I have (great communication, organization, networking) translate well to arts admin and development; however, my resume doesn't get a second look at the Kennedy Center (I know, I've tried), despite a great education, good work experience, and a history of volunteer work and involvement with area arts groups. I know I'd be a great asset to any arts organization, because of my enthusiasm and passion for the arts, yet it seems they want me to toil at a $20,000/year job in the arts before I'd even be called in for an interview. I can appreciate the "paying your dues" theory, but I feel like no one will even call me for an interview, so I'm in a catch-22. Is a master's degree in arts administration the way to go? Please advise!
Many thanks!
Darrell Ayers: If you have computer experience, I can almost guarantee you a job with an arts organization. Many arts groups are selling tickets on line, creating Web sites, etc. In fact, there are many positions listed in ArtSearch, which is an employment bulletin produced by TCG (Theatre Communications Group) out of NY
Washington D.C.: I've been to the Center. I find the staff to be more upper class and snobbish. How about some customer service?
Darrell Ayers: Thanks for your question, however, I would like to keep the focus on internships and employment in the arts. Please visit our Web site and our comment line staff can speak with you further about this subject
Washington, D.C.: I'm finishing up a Masters in Arts Management at American University. Over the time I have been here, I've worked in grants, with presenting organizations, and in PR.
Now, I'm starting to make the hard choices on what to do once I graduate. And wondering if I was right - that the job satisfaction will be worth the pay cut.
I'd really love to work in the folk arts. But there seem to be limited opportunities in DC for that. Moving is not an option, due to spouse's work (which cannot be done elsewhere) and personal preference.
I think that between my reading (periodicals, newspapers, net), and the sources on campus, I'm pretty well versed in what's out there. But, maybe I'm not. What are some of the best sources on local arts organizations? Is there a directory of some sort that would let me see who is around here and what they do? And is there a group that has job listings that specialize in the arts?
Darrell Ayers: The Cultural Alliance of Greater Washington is a good resource http://cultural-alliance.org
Also, most arts organization e.g., Kennedy Center, Wolftrap, University of MD have job listings on their Web sites
Amy Joyce: Darrell, how many internship openings does the Kennedy Center have each year, and what sort of folks are you looking for? Do you ever have high school interns?
Darrell Ayers: Good question. The Center selects about 60 college juniors, seniors and recent graduates into the program per year. Our internships last from 3-4 months and a stipend of $800 is paid as well as weekly sessions with senior staff and attendance at performances and educational events free-of-charge.
I do not know of any high school internship programs, but some of the smaller organizations have volunteer and shadowing opps.
re: computer experience: Hi, this is Arlington, Va. again with the computer experience. I really want to get away from working with computers. If I had to, I'd be willing to take a computer job for a year or so, but I really want to move into development or special arts events planning. I'm afraid, though, if I move into arts through the computer field, that I'll be pigeon-holed into doing computer stuff, which is ultimately NOT what I want to do. How does that change your advice? Thanks.
Darrell Ayers: Okay, well there are always positions open in development (fundraising) and this is primarily because the opportunities are great in that field, so people move around. Your computer experience would bode well in a development position. Consider applying for a development assistant position with an arts organization.
Washington D.C.: I am computer geek, only a thesis and an internship away from an MA in Arts Management. I want to combine my two passions, and use the computer skills in the arts. Yet far too often I find that the NFP nature of many arts organizations makes equipment and skilled computer professionals too expensive for them.
How can I best market myself to show these organizations that a person skilled with computers and knowledgeable about arts can be a very valuable addition to a team?
Darrell Ayers: Your resume should be able to do the job and also networking (as always) is an extremely valuable tool in getting a job.
Washington D.C.: I am employed full time. I NEED to be employed full time to pay the mortgage. Yet, I want to work in the arts. I'm in a grad program, and would LOVE an internship in the arts. The Kennedy Center would be truly wonderful. As a practical matter, what kinds of hours do internships generally require? Do you offer paid internships? What are the chances of an internship leading to full time employment?
Darrell Ayers: There are a number of paid internships in the Washington area--Kennedy Center, Wolftrap, Arena. Wolftrap is part-time in the fall and winter and a few of our interns at the Center have worked restaurant jobs on the side.
About 1-3 interns are hired at the Kennedy Center after their internships. It always depends on timing and the individual's skills.
Artsy Partsy: I like my professional job quite a bit but I also have a yen for acting and entertaining. I also happen to be not very good at it. Are there programs folks like me could take to ascend to a respectable level of performing without giving up the 9-5 gig? Eventually I'd like to be able to perform in well-respected plays.
Darrell Ayers: You need to take some classes. There are a number of wonderful training programs in the area, e.g., Source, Theater Lab. Look in the Weekend Section of The Washington Post (Guide to the Lively Arts) and there are always classes and audition opportunities listed.
Washington, D.C. (again): This is the person working in politics, wanting to move back into arts whose question you just answered. You recommended that I apply to entry-level positions in arts, but as I have been working for 3 years post-college, do you think it is possible to get a mid-level position, even with limited arts management experience? I have a strong background in marketing and writing, I just haven't been working in arts for the last few years. Thanks again.
Amy Joyce: I'll let Darrell answer this one because of his expertise in your specific field, but in general, when you're breaking into a field, you have to accept that you may be working in an entry-level position. It may not last long, and you may be able to move up more quickly than others, but it still is the way to get your foot in the door. I'd suggest when you interview, ask what the advancement possibilities are, and let the interviewers know that you will be looking to do XX in XX years. If you really want something, working your way in from an entry-level position is a great option. Darrell?
Darrell Ayers: I agree Amy. Before coming to the Center I was in the mortgage and loan business (making pretty good money). I went back to school and part of my degree program was to do an internship. I started at the Center 15 years ago as an intern and now am back (financially) where I was when I left the finance field. You have to make the sacrifice, if you really want to break into the field.
Washington D.C.: "About 1-3 interns are hired at the Kennedy Center after their internships. It always depends on timing and the individual's skills. "
Is that 1,2, maybe 3, out of a group of 100, or 1 out of every 3?
Thanks.
Darrell Ayers: Good question. Generally out of each intern class of 20--fall, winter/spring, summer--1-3 are hired, so 3-9 each year
Washington, D.C.: I would love to start a successful internship program at my nonprofit. Can you talk a bit about what makes your program successful and what the pitfalls are?
Darrell Ayers: Well, that is a big subject. It is important that the internship be as beneficial to the student as it is to the institution. Amanda Perry, internship coordinator at the Center, works closely with supervisors throughout the Center, to devise learning objectives and goals for interns to complete during their internship. The education aspect is important. It can't just be free or low cost labor. If you want to speak further about this topic, please call Amanda at (202)416-8800 or alperry@kennedy-center.org
20011: I'm very interested in working for a place like the Smithsonian, the Library of Congress, Wolf Trap, Carter Barron - basically, I love those venues!
Are these jobs federal? I know some Smithsonian jobs are trust fund jobs. Does this hold true at other federally owned presenting venues?
Darrell Ayers: The Smithsonian, Library of Congress are federal. Wolftrap administrative jobs are not federal, but other jobs are. Carter Barron is either part of the park service or DC Government.
20016: I'm not clear on your answer about paid v unpaid internships. Sounds like you're saying that they are full time, days, and a few pay. Roughly how much do they pay?
Basically, you'd have to be working a night job if you have financial obligations (tuition, mortgage, and groceries), in order to afford to work one of these internships?
Darrell Ayers: Kennedy Center provides a monthly stipend of $800. Some provide an hourly rate, e.g., Wolftrap, Arena. Most are lower than the Kennedy Center.
You may be able to find a part-time internship through the Cultural Alliance and a lot of small theaters do not have a formal program, but if you call and speak with them, sometimes they will provide an opportunity.
Washington D.C.: Hi Darrell
I'm a psyche major right now and I'm going to graduate December next year. I've been doing theatre on the side but now that graduation and the "real world" is looming closer...I feel more strongly about theatre and revulsion towards psychology. I'm supposed to become a shrink but I love the theatre. How can I spend my last summer and semester of freedom in the theatre? Are there people who lead corporate hell professional lives and still have fulfilling theatre lives as well? I don't think I'm talented enough to be a famous actor or anything but I love performing!
Amy Joyce: "How can I spend my last summer and semester of freedom..." Sounds to me like you don't be a shrink. Look for another job/profession. Your skills are very transferable. Don't do something you don't want to do at such a young age!
Darrell Ayers: Yes, there is life after school. In fact, a number of administrative staff at the Center performs with various arts groups around DC. I agree with Amy's last sentence.
20009: Every profession these days seems to have a professional society and a journal. What about arts managers?
Darrell Ayers: Arts Presenters in DC, http://ispa.org, Association of Arts Administration Educators. There also "Arts Management" a newsletter. Also, Artswire.
Laurel, Md.: I have a BA in Music and minor in English Writing, a cosmetology license, and two to three years of experience in library work as well as lab/biomedical science research ( I started out Pre-med.). My passion is for the music/arts entertainment industry. I would like to focus on developing my writing skills to ultimately write storylines for TV and film. I need good steady pay. What writing positions in the D.C. area would be strategic for me the federal gov't./or otherwise?
Thanks
"Jack-of-all-trades"
Darrell Ayers: BEing a grant writer is a good way. Also Georgetown offers screenwriting classes. Also, the League of Washington Theatres would be a good source for playwriting.
Amy Joyce: Darrell, what are the qualifications you look for in your college interns, and what sort of things do they do in their internships? Have any ever gone on to full-time positions at the Center?
Darrell Ayers: Generally someone applying needs to have experience in the arts, either as a performer or having worked on the administrative side of arts at their college. We have interns in marketing, development, education, press relations, advertising, computers, volunteer management, and special events.
About 15% (53 people at the Center) are former interns.
Arlington, Va.: Hi Darrell
I'm a sophomore in high school and I've been doing school plays and local theatre since I was a kid. I want to be a professional actor...what do you recommend for me to best prepare myself for a life in the performing arts? What colleges should I apply to? What internships should I get? Do I need to start preparing this early?
Darrell Ayers: There are a lot of very fine theater programs around the country. In fact, this week the Kennedy Center American College Theater Festival is happening. I would come by the Center and take in some of the shows, as well as taking with some of the performers.
Look in ArtSearch. There are also summer stock opportunities, and college listings.
Also, Peterson's Guide to Universities is a good resource.
Arlington Va.: Hi Darrell
What's the success rate of people who have gotten internships in your program? Is it like going to Juilliard for college? I just want to make sure that I get the most out of an internship and I'm in the process of considering which ones I want to apply for.
Darrell Ayers: Well, I am a little partial. We are one of two arts organizations listed in the Princeton's Review of the Top 100 internships. Lincoln Center offers 1-2 internships a year. LA Music Center has an internship program. ArtSearch is a very good resource for internships at arts organizations through the nation, but there are a lot in New York.
An internship at the Kennedy Center is not like going to Julliard. it is professional experience for college students, to bridge the academic world and the professional work world.
Alexandria, Va.: I love the thrill of being involved in the performing arts but I'm not too big on being on stage. What other areas of the performing arts can I get involved in without actually having to "perform?" Program management? Writing? Stage set up? Choreography? How do you get involved on those levels, how can I get experience on those levels? Are these areas potentially lucrative?
Darrell Ayers: There are all sorts of opportunities in arts administration. visit the Center's Web site at kennedy-center.org/vilarinstitute for additional information.
Entry level positions in arts admin. Start in the low 20s. Mid-level managers make $30-$50 and senior staff get into 6 figures.
Washington D.C.: Darrell, I have a very "troubled" son. He's a freshman in college and he wants to drop out already. The only thing that he IS interested in is theatre. How can I keep in school and in theatre? Should I send him to you for an internship?
Darrell Ayers: Taking a semester off and doing an internship sometimes help focus students. You have to have completed your sophomore year to eligible for the Center's program, but there are some around the country that take younger students.
Washington D.C.: Where should we send resumes for your internship program? What's the application/interview/work cycle?
Darrell Ayers: For information about applying to the Kennedy Center for an internship, please visit kennedy-center.org/vilarinstitute/internships The deadline for fall is June 15 and the deadline for winter/spring is November 1
Washington D.C.: 15 years of working experience, an MA in Arts Management (soon, soon) What can I expect to find in the arts employment world?
That is, what sorts of salaries? What sorts of benefits? Hours?
Darrell Ayers: Entry level starts at low $20; mid-senior level $30-$40 depending upon the size of the organization. Most arts organizations offer major medical. The Center offers major medical, dental, a tax sheltered annuity and attendance at all the performances you can stand. Hours depend on the organization, but in non-profit you will probably work 50-60 hours work for a 40-hour paycheck (in mid-senior management positions).
Washington D.C.: kennedy-center.org/vilarinstitute won't connect. Can you confirm that address? Or is it just busy?
Darrell Ayers: We are having network problems currently, but the address is correct. Try back later today. Sorry for the problem.
Minneapolis, Minn.: I am an actress/singer living in Minneapolis, where there is plenty of work, both in the theatre and in commercial/industrial work. Unfortunately my husband wants to move somewhere warmer. I am not interested in going to New York or Los Angeles, due to the high cost of living in a tiny apartment. What are other good cities for small timers like me? Seattle?
Darrell Ayers: California's good (even outside of LA). try San Francisco. Atlanta is coming up. Also Wilmington DE is doing a lot of film work these days and things in the Orlando area continue to improve.
Amy Joyce:
That was our last question today. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.
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